ASK LARRY
ASK LARRY
Do you have a home related
question thats bothering you? Click ASK
LARRY. Or click on one
of the questions below. .
Dear Larry,
We're getting ready to
present a contract on a house that I am very attracted to. My
husband is concerned because of what he calls a musty smell. The
Realtor says it's because the house has been closed up for a
couple of weeks. Is this something we can have checked out and
how should we do it? Also, my son claims that the house makes him
feel congested.
Shopping in Tallahassee
Dear Shopping,
Your problem seems to be a fungus related problem, which is
very common in Tallahassee. Such conditions are usually related
to a moisture problem. Any time you detect a strong musty or
mildew odor you can expect to find such a problem. My initial
analysis is dependent upon the type of foundation under the house
- whether it is a concrete slab foundation or a crawlspace. A
great majority of the problems such as you have described occur
with crawlspace foundations.
My first response would be to determine how much cross
ventilation is provided to the crawlspace. Can it
"breath"? Most building codes call for a minimum of one
square foot of ventilation (located in the foundation wall) for
every 150-sq. ft. of crawlspace area.
The next thing I would examine is the site drainage. Are there
areas where water is ponding next to or running under the house?
Quite often, the lack of guttering along the roof eave will allow
much of the roof water run-off to fall within inches of the
foundation, resulting in massive amounts of water migrating,
percolating or flowing into the crawlspace under the house.
Only by actually crawling around under the house can you
determine if this could be the problem. Look for damp soil or
standing water under the house. Look for condensed moisture on
the wood. Fungus growth on the wood is a good indication of high
moisture levels. The fungus may look like a white powder or fine
black fuzz or a vivid collage of bright oranges, purples, yellows
and grays. As a rule, the thicker and more pervasive the fungus,
the greater is your moisture problem. When the microscopic spores
of these fungi enter the air in a great enough quantity they
become easier and easier to detect, although many individuals
with allergies will become profoundly affected long before
another individual will detect anything. When it reaches the
point that the smell is obvious to anyone entering inside
the house, the problem is usually very significant. A problem of
this magnitude is often associated with wood destroying fungi, or
wood rot. 90% of the time if you can smell it, there's probably
some wood rotting somewhere. Under the bathroom is the usual area
followed by under the kitchen sink area.
If the problem is severe enough the spores will grow in the
carpeting, under the carpeting, in the air conditioning system,
etc., making it very difficult to eradicate. If caught early
enough, controlling yard drainage, increasing crawlspace
ventilation and a topical spraying of the subfloor and
undercarriage with a borate solution will usually solve the
problem. If the house has a slab foundation the smell could be
coming from fungus resulting from a roof leak, a broken pipe in
the slab, a leaking shower pan, a leaking pipe under a sink or in
a wall, a wet and dirty air conditioning system, etc.
Usually, a strong musty odor indicates a moisture problem and
is symptomatic of a "sick house". By all means, check
it out as the remedy justifies the cost of the investigation.
Larry
I'm getting ready to
purchase a used home, and I've been burned twice before with bad
AC systems. What kind of problems might I have with my air
conditioner, and how can I avoid/detect them?".
Fred G.
Fred,
I like to look at the various AC related problems as sort of
syndromes. Theres the Noah Syndrome where a leaking
condensate drain turns the hard wood floor into warped pieces of
the ark, or where it starts raining from the ceiling.
Theres the Legionnaire Syndrome where everybody in
the house gets sick, or it starts smelling like Grandpas old
socks. How about the Capital Punishment Syndrome where the
homeowner gets electrocuted while making an amateur electrical
repair? Theres the Arctic Air Syndrome where the
ducts have come loose in the attic or crawlspace. For the
visionary futurists there is the Melanoma Generation Syndrome
in which your Freon leak today causes melanoma in your
childs kid tomorrow. How many of you have suffered from Insect
Revenge Syndrome? Be careful of the Karma you are building
with fire ants, wasps, and palmetto bugs. The Boston Strangler
Syndrome chokes off the airflow burning up compressors and
fan motors. Last but not least is the Poodle and the Oxcart
Syndrome. How many people are trying to cool the Taj Mahal
with a window unit, or visa versa?
Cut out the chart below
and paste it in the center of your bathroom mirror or car
windshield as a reminder to implement:
LARRYS
AIR-CONDITIONING SYNDROME ANALYSIS
Noah Syndrome
Manifestations - Condensate
(water created by the dehumidification process of air
conditioning) leaking all over the place.
Checkpoints for prevention
-Look for:
- Blocked condensate drain line (algae, buried, plugged)
- Dirty evaporator coil
- Dirty filter
- Dirty secondary drain pan (in overhead systems)
- Dirty secondary drain-lines or check cut-off switches
- Water stains or wood-rot around air handler
- Defective sump pumps
- Leaky return ducts in attic or crawlspace.
Worst case scenario:
Air handler is located in attic and leaks into poorly mounted
overflow pan. Pan fills, becomes unbalanced and tips, pouring 15
gallons of water into the living-room ceiling where it runs
through the chandelier and onto the stamp collection containing
that rare stamp from New Guinea (You know, that red one with the
scribbling on it).
Legionnaire Syndrome
Manifestations - People get
sick (This is only limited to asthmatics, people with allergies,
mold and fungus sensitive people, small children, old people,
pregnant women, people with HIV, people with an aversion to
breathing animal hairs, dead skin, dirt, or small pieces of
insect bodies, and oxygen dependent individuals. All others can
ignore this section and skip to the next), or the house starts to
stink (regardless of the presence of small children et. all).
Possible smells include grandpa's old socks, mold, freshly turned
earth, putrefying flesh, urine, and exotic cooking (in cases
where the person in the next apartment has tapped into your duct
system to cool their apt.).
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Disconnected ducts in the crawlspace or attic.
- Animal nests in duct system.
- Dirt and fungus on the evaporator coil.
- Filth in the duct system.
- Communication between ducts and building cavities.
- Foul odors
Worst Case Scenario: Possum
living in return air duct gets caught in fan blades. Or how about
this one: The last thing technician Bill Smiths wife heard
him say, as he kissed her goodbye from worn seat of the old
service van, was "I got a funny feeling about that fan motor
at the Thompson house".
Capital Punishment Syndrome
Manifestations - Faulty
electrical problem causes shock or fire.
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Loose or exposed wires.
- Burned wires or burned smell.
- Oversized fuses.
- Water dripping into electrical areas.
- Shocking metal ducts or cabinets.
- Wires rubbing against sharp metal edges.
Worst case scenario:
An improperly spliced wire (no junction box) is lying across
the metal ductwork in the attic. Vibration of the unit causes the
plastic wire-nut to fall off the joined black wires and allows
them to come in contact with the top of the duct. Subsequently,
flue-stricken Harry Homeowner steps out of the shower and decides
he doesnt want that cold air blasting on his cold, but when
he reaches up to adjust the air vent
ZAP! - He's no longer
bothered by the flu.
Arctic Air Syndrome:
Manifestations - Duct comes
loose in attic or crawlspace. A loose supply duct will blow cold
air into the attic or crawlspace, a condition which will make the
house suck air in from outside of the building envelope as it
depressurizes from the lost air. This outside air is costly and
often contains contaminates such as radon, termiticides, fungus,
etc. A loose return duct can suck attic or crawlspace air
directly into the airhandler for circulation throughout the
house.
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Blowing or moving insulation around duct joints.
- Open drains or loose panels in air handlers.
- Sweating ducts in crawlspaces
- Wet wood or fungus on wood in crawlspaces.
- Musty odors.
- Poor differential (less than 15 degrees) between return
and supply temps.
Worst case scenario: A supply
duct comes loose in a crawlspace under a house, and the cold air
from the AC blows for two years undetected. The warm moist air of
the crawlspace cools down, but, because cold air cant hold
as much water as warm air, the cooled air gives up its moisture
precipitating it out on the nearby wood of the floor joists and
subfloor. These in turn, because they are now maintaining a
moisture content of >19 % support a fungus commonly known as
wood rot. It is possible, within a few years, for the floor
joists to rot to the point where one could stick a screwdriver
through the middle of them.
Melanoma Generation Syndrome
Manifestations - Refrigerant
(Freon) leaks.
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Oil around pipe connections.
- Freezing evaporator coil.
- Poor or little cooling, high utility bill, Supply-return
air temp differential<15°
.
- History of "topping off" with Freon.
- Tipping or unstable condensing unit.
- Teenagers sitting in a circle around your condensing unit
giggling.
Worst case scenario: A small,
slow leak develops in the attic mounted evaporator - your system
runs less and less efficiently, consequently more and more,
resulting in an astronomical cooling bill. You are informed after
a two hour diagnosis that the leak is probably in the evaporator,
which is located in a very tight, very hot attic where
temperatures are routinely 120 degrees The cost to fix will be
about $1,000. You tell them youll think about it and they
pull all of the Freon out of your system since they cannot allow
it to leak into the atmosphere and destroy the ozone. You borrow
a jug of Freon from a neighbor to recharge your system and are
caught. The fine is $10.000!
Insect revenge syndrome:
Manifestations - Insects
damage the AC system
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Fire ants in and around the condensing unit.
- Wasps in the disconnect boxes
- Ants and roaches in the contactors and relays.
- Mud dauber wasp tubes in the condensate drain line.
Worst case scenario:
Fire ants have taken up residency in the condensing unit in
your back yard. Over time, and unbeknownst to you, they fill the
lower third of the unit with dirt reducing its ability to cool by
30%. This heats up the compressor and shortens its life.
Meanwhile one by one, little ant bodies are getting caught in the
compressor contactor preventing it from closing and increasing
the current draw, ulitmately destroying the compressor.
The Boston Strangler
Syndrome
Manifestations - The
evaporator coil or filter becomes so filthy that air cant
pass through the ducts causing the system to ice up, or the
condensing coil becomes clogged, burning up the compressor.
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Dirty filter
- Poor air flow
- Water around air handler
- Return air duct communicating with building cavity, attic
or crawlspace.
- Dirt and fungus on evaporator coil.
- Ice on evaporator coil or supply-return air temp
differential >21° .
- Trash caught in fan.
- Bushes crowding condensing unit outside.
- Dryer lint clogging condensing coils from nearby
discharge.
Worst case scenario:
The fiberglass duct-board that makes up much of your duct
system has been deteriorating, allowing the air handler to suck
in millions of tiny glass slivers. The ones that dont make
it into the conditioned house air wind up sticking to the damp
evaporator coil. As the coil gets more and more clogged, other
bits and pieces of debris collect and soon a fungus starts to
grow all over the coil. Less and less air can pass through the
coil so the coil begins to ice up. Soon it is a big chunk of ice
and no air passes through the ducts at all. When you shut it off,
the ice melts and drips all over the hardwood floor.
Poodle and Oxcart Syndrome
Manifestations - The air
conditioning unit is undersized or oversized for the house.
Undersizing usually results from building an addition onto the
house such as a garage enclosure and attempting to cool it by
extending the existing ductwork. Oversizing springs from the
more-is-better mentality, and results in a cold clammy house, as
the system is unable to run long enough to dehumidify the air.
Checkpoints for prevention -
Look for:
- Additions or conversions which fail to provide a new
source of heating and cooling.
- High utility bills
- Mildew
Worst case scenario: After
getting three bids to convert your garage into a den, you hire
Handy Andy whos bid was far better than the other two guys.
One of Andys methods of saving money was to eliminate the
extra air conditioner that the other two bids included. Because
Andy was unlicensed he didnt plan to pull a permit (another
cost saver). This meant that Andy didnt have to have his
plans reviewed or schedule for an inspection (thus saving time).
He took the money he saved from not having to buy liability or
workmans compensation insurance, and bought a piece of
dryer hose so he could run a little extension vent into the den.
Andy was lucky. Because the garage walls were already
sheet-rocked, he could save money on wall insulation. He
succeeded in adding on another 500-sq. ft. for next to nothing.
The 1200 sq. ft. home now had 1700 sq. ft. The only problem is
that the two ton unit is only good for up to about 1200 sq. ft.
(Rough rule of thumb is one ton per each 500-600 sq. ft of living
space. Not only is the den hot, but so is the whole house! Which
reminds me.
This useful diagnostic tool should guide you through the
difficult process of the do-it-yourself air conditioning
analysis. And remember what I always say, " Its not
cool to be hot!"
Dear Mr.
Cerro,
We are considering buying
an older home near the downtown area of Tallahassee. When I
peeked under the house, I could see some white insulation falling
off of some of the pipes. I was told by my neighbor that this
could be asbestos, and that it could be expensive to deal with.
Is that true? How bad is this problem?
Thanks in advance,
George E.
.
George,
One of the most expensive problems that I encounter while
inspecting older homes is friable asbestos in the crawlspace
underneath the house. In the forties, fifties and sixties many of
the heating systems and hot water piping systems had asbestos
insulation wrapped around ducts, pipes, burners or flue-
assemblies. It was usually the higher quality houses or systems
that had the asbestos. During its time, it was hailed as a wonder
product. Today, however, it has been linked to asbestosis, a
fatal lung disease.
Not all asbestos is dangerous. Many floor systems, roof
systems, and sidings, while containing asbestos, are not
dangerous because the asbestos is not friable. That is to say the
asbestos is bound up in vinyl, or cement, and is not crumbly and
capable of being inhaled (unless abraded or pulverized). Most of
the older pipe and duct related asbestos insulation, however, is
now very friable. It crumbles at a touch and in many cases is
flaking apart and spontaneously deteriorating. When the asbestos
becomes friable like this, it becomes dangerous to those exposed
to it.
One of the exacerbating conditions that I encounter, as a home
inspector is when such an insulation system was located in the
crawlspace under the house. Here, when the tiny particles (or
larger clumps) of asbestos (in their deteriorated state) begin to
drop off of the pipes or ducts etc., they fall on the dirt floor
of the crawl space and become mixed in with the dirt. This
creates a problem for the next person who happens to be crawling
through that area. Usually a plumber, electrician or AC
repairman, they are now exposed to the asbestos laden dust being
stirred up with the disturbed earth under the house.
What does asbestos look like?
When it is wrapped around (hot) water pipes it usually looks
like white corrugated cardboard tubing about as thick as a
baseball bat. It is often surrounded by cheesecloth like
membrane. When it's used on AC ductwork, it looks like soft white
cardboard glued to the duct. On flues it may look like paper tape
around the outside, or if in the inside of flues it may look like
chalk, packed between the walls of the flue pipes.
What does one do if they discover they have asbestos?
Positive identification of asbestos can only be made through
scientific analysis of a sample, usually electron microscopy. It
is for this reason that when an inspector or tradesman suspects
the presence of asbestos, they usually describe it as an
"asbestos like material", or "probable
asbestos". More often than not, the call is correct. A true
identification of asbestos can only be made by an individual
certified to do so. For this reason, the first step in dealing
with suspected asbestos is to make a positive identification. The
homeowner can send a sample to a lab and for under $20 usually
identify the sample, or an asbestos abatement contractor can be
called in for an opinion and estimate regarding remedies.
How does one get rid of asbestos?
There are several ways of dealing with the problem. Removal is
the most common, particularly where the friable condition does
indeed threaten the inhabitants. There are conditions however
where encapsulation might be the best choice. These include
conditions where removal might actually create uncontainable
airborne asbestos. Encapsulation means sealing off the asbestos
(wrapping, painting, laminating, etc.). Sometimes combinations of
techniques are used. The pipe insulation will be wrapped and
sealed and then the whole assembly - pipe, asbestos, wrap, etc.
will be hauled off.
Crawlspace abatement is a little more difficult however. It is
expensive because of the confined areas in which one has to work,
and the conditions in which one has to work (Moon suits,
respirators, decontamination systems, etc.). The crawlspace has
to be sealed off to insure that the airborne asbestos is
contained. The dirt containing the asbestos has to be removed
from the crawlspace and disposed of properly. It is typical for
such jobs to run in the thousands of dollars.
Sometimes the asbestos insulation was removed from the pipes
long ago, but care was not taken and asbestos scraps now litter
the crawl-space floor. In these cases, it might be necessary to
remove the top several inches of dirt from the entire crawlspace
to ensure total abatement. Typically, after a dirt-floor
abatement, the remaining soil will be sprayed with a fixative to
minimize airborne particulates. This crusty fixative surface is
usually disturbed, however, the first time someone crawls
through. Regardless of the size of the crawlspace mitigation, I
always recommend installation of a plastic membrane barrier
(6-mil visqueen) over the crawlspace floor as extra protection.
Insist upon this with your abatement contractor if it is not
offered in the package.
Check attics too!
I see a similar problem occasionally in attics, only when
attics are involved, instead of hauling off dirt, the old attic
insulation has to be removed if the asbestos has become mixed in
with it.
In conclusion
To summarize, when checking for asbestos look for:
- Signs of an old abandoned heating system (pieces of
furnace, flue pipe, duct work, etc.).
- White corrugated cardboard looking stuff around pipes.
- Soft white cardboard-like wrapping around ducts.
- Crumbly white plaster looking stuff around old chimneys.
- Flaky looking whitish stuff lying around in the
crawlspace.
While the presence of asbestos can be costly to fix, it can be
fixed, and once its gone, that older home of yours will be
safer to live in, and easier to sell should that time arrive.
Dear Larry,
The house we are going to
purchase has no gutters. Both of our previous houses had gutters.
Is the lack of gutters a problem?
Martha G.
Martha,
Many architects and builders today are leaving gutters and
down-spouts out of their plans, yet that very fact is causing one
of the most common problems I, as an inspector, encounter.
Although gutters and downspouts are not a necessity on all
structures, there are particular situations that virtually cry
for such installations. The trick is identifying the need for
them and having them installed before the damage is done. So,
what are the flags that identify these needs? The first is the
type of siding. The four types of siding most susceptible to roof
water splash-back damage appear to be a hard board (pressboard)
type siding (such as Masonite), a chip-board type siding (such as
Louisiana Pacific), a textured plywood siding (such as T-111),
and soft drop siding such as pine or cedar. Be warned however
that synthetic stucco siding is notorious for having unseen water
damage within the walls. And these houses should always have
gutters. Click on "synthetic
stucco" for more information.
Next is proximity of the siding to the ground, paint coverage,
and flashing. All of these sidings must be at least 6 inches
above grade, should be primed before painting, (including all
edge and end grain), and should be properly flashed around doors
and windows. (Look for a strip of metal over the top trim). All
of these types of siding are likely to receive and absorb a lot
of water wherever roof-water run-off strikes a nearby surface and
splashes onto it. If this condition exists, I recommend
installing gutters. Similarly, doorjambs, windowsills, door and
window trim, and thresholds are highly vulnerable to rot when
exposed to splash-back. Gutters above such areas prevent a
curtain of rain from damaging the wood trim.
When water runs off the roof and splashes onto a hard surface
(like a deck or patio) it usually causes damage to the wood
immediately surrounding it. Typical areas suffering from such
damage are the thresholds of sliding glass doors, siding adjacent
to decks and patios, trim around garage doors, siding next to
fence posts, siding next to the air conditioning condensing
units, and wood near shrubbery.
Other serious problems often associated with roof water
splash-back are subfloor damage under sliding doors and
French-door thresholds, and band-joist rot where decks are
improperly fastened to the house (no flashings). Both of these
can only be determined by crawling under the house. If the damage
has extended to the perimeter girders, repairs can be very
costly.
When examining your house, clues that foretell of impending
problems from splash back are:
- A high mildew content
- Discoloration
- Fungus growth
- Carpenter ants (Big black ants that nest in rotted wood).
- Soft or rotting wood
- Spongy flooring around door thresholds
- Soft or swelling siding (countersunk nails)
Remember, take the time to look at where the water from your
roof is winding up. The roof is a large surface area catching
water and concentrating it in a few areas. Where is it going?
What is the result of this? Don't be afraid to carefully poke
with a screwdriver when hunting for rot. If there is a crawl
space below your house, and a lot of the water is running under
there
Oh, but thats a whole different subject. Just
remember, if your house lacks gutters, check it out carefully.